Android Chatter - Slide Me and other app stores

[JCB]

Since I got my Scroll Engage in July, I have been installing apps from Play Store. Recently I tried the Amazon app store, but I only really went there with the promise of daily free versions of normally paid for apps.

I haven't understood why Storage Options made a big thing about providing access to the Slide Me store. Admittedly I haven't actually tired it yet! But Play Store has seemed the obvious place to go and I have been accessing that through the Play Store widget that was on my Engage out of the box.

With the Storage Options blurb pushing Slide Me, I had wondered before I bought the tablet whether I might have problems getting onto Play Store but access has been fine, as far as I understand these things.

Q1. Why do SO push Slide Me and not mention Play?

Q2. Am I missing anything by sticking with Play, or should I be making use of other stores too?

Q3. Is Slide Me a good store to use?

John

[Trashcooky]

Since I got my Scroll Engage in July, I have been installing apps from Play Store. Recently I tried the Amazon app store, but I only really went there with the promise of daily free versions of normally paid for apps.

I haven't understood why Storage Options made a big thing about providing access to the Slide Me store. Admittedly I haven't actually tired it yet! But Play Store has seemed the obvious place to go and I have been accessing that through the Play Store widget that was on my Engage out of the box.

With the Storage Options blurb pushing Slide Me, I had wondered before I bought the tablet whether I might have problems getting onto Play Store but access has been fine, as far as I understand these things.

Q1. Why do SO push Slide Me and not mention Play?

Q2. Am I missing anything by sticking with Play, or should I be making use of other stores too?

Q3. Is Slide Me a good store to use?

John

I like your layout, nice and easy to read and respond to.

I don't want to labour the point too much but it goes something like this.

1. Google have a protocol whereby they trial android devices to ensure they meet particular standards for running android applications in an expected manner. If the device functions according to Google's criteria then they will issue it with an approval/license which ensures the device access to those Google Play apps that Google expect to work on it correctly but will not allow access to apps that Google expects won't work on it.

(a) The reasoning behind this is that If you have an android device which screws up when you download an app from the Play store, Google don't want it to be their fault! This is why when you access it the Google Play-store interrogates your android device to see what it is (from information contained in the build-prop) and if it recognises it as a (for instance) Nexus 7, it will allow access to all the Nexus 7 apps that Google expects to work on a Nexus 7 but will not allow download (or sometimes even sight) of apps that Google don't expect to work on a Nexus 7. This is why Storage Options tell you about their app partners such as "Slide Me" because officially they don't have access to what every android device owner wants - access to the Google Play-store apps.

(b) None of the entire range of Scroll tablets have (or are likely to in future) been passed/licensed via this Google protocol so technically by selling an android device with the Google Market/Play app pre-installed could arguably lead to legal issues for the seller of such a device. As far as I am aware this has not been tested in court yet but you can bet your life if this does ever cause trouble for Google they will be on it like a ton of bricks. ( I think it only because of the open source issues with android that Google haven't closed this loophole - but they theoretically could.) Incidentally, this is also partly the reason why you can't just log in to Google and download the Market/Play app through a browser (you can only ever officially get it by pre-installation on the device) - in fact often you will find you can't download anything from Play-store through a browser, which is why having the app is so important as it is like a key to the door - so to speak.

(c) When people mod their tablets by flashing a custom ROM these usually have what is referred to as Gapps (Google apps) either pre-installed or available separately to install, as none of the Gapps are available to download from Play-store.
Also when flashing a custom ROM the build prop is usually modified to spoof the device as something it isn't so that Google Play allows it access to downloads that may otherwise be unavailable. My little Scroll Excel has a databank of different identities on the Play-store where I have flashed ROMS to spoof it as an iVew, a Momo9, and even a Nexus 7 running Jellybean. As a Scroll Excel it started out life on Gingerbread 2.3.4 and was unrecognised by Play-store.



2. I certainly don't think you are missing anything by staying with Google Play - in fact on Storage Options (The Scroll importers) Facebook page, most of the complaints are about Scroll tablets not having access to Google Play-store.
(interspersed with many comment of "Oh Yes they do!" )
As you have discovered, you can indeed access Play-store but usually only after you have carried out a particular procedure on the tablet first - I guess this is Storage Options get out, it didn't have access to Play-store out of the box....

3. As far as Slide Me being any good or not - it is horses for courses. If they have what you want then I guess it is OK. Personally, I have found their app sources are sometimes questionable but you need to make your own decision on this.

[JCB]

I like your layout, nice and easy to read and respond to.

Thank you for the plaudit. In my past lives as a systems programmer and a software engineer, I did see many examples of how it shouldn't be done. I have had to answer many support requests and fault reports. I always told people "one form, one problem". Some people took notice and others didn't.

Anyway thanks for your clear and detailed response. I have looked at some of your responses to other queries and you go well beyond the call of duty. I have seen your patient replies to what look like hopeless cases. However we all benefit from you sharing your knowledge this way.

There is clearly a lot of complexity from Google putting together a system that is at one level open source and free for everyone to use and at another level their business interest in making money (monetizing it, as the Americans seem to say) from their work and keeping control of Android. Am I right in thinking that although it is open source, most of the Android operating system code is delivered by Google staff?

Presumably the Gapps you mentioned fall between these areas. I shall look further into this subject.

I am interested in the business of the Play store allowing some downloads and rejecting others as "This app is incompatible with ...". Is it known who is making the decision - is it the app developer when he uploads it to Play, or is it Google on some analysis they make?

I have a particular case in mind. I have been trying out the Tumblr blog system on PC and have been toying with it on my Engage too. I have used a couple of third party apps to access Tumblr as I hit the incompatibilty message when trying to download the official app from Play. Tumblr only give a link to Play and my email to their support gave only the typical non-reply you might expect in these circumstances. I am wondering whether the block is down to Tumblr or Google.

Currently I am considering whether I should attempt a side load, as I have discovered the APK on an unrelated site called AndroidDrawer. I am guessing that at worst it will simply not run and at best it will work just fine. I see no reason why installing an "incompatible" app should do any further damage.

One can criticise Google for some of their decisions and their control of Android, but overall I am very glad that they have delivered a workable system to compete against Apple and iOS and allow me to buy a tablet I like at a price I like without the Apple style lock-in.

I read that we may have a third choice at some tiime, as a Chinese organisation is developing an Android like system that can be used by their handset manufacturers independently of Google and Apple. It's called Aliyun if I remember right. It's good to see some real competition between the three, remembering the way the PC market has been dominated by Windows.

Hmm, I seem to have wandered off the original topic.

John

[Trashcooky]

I like your layout, nice and easy to read and respond to.

Thank you for the plaudit. In my past lives as a systems programmer and a software engineer, I did see many examples of how it shouldn't be done. I have had to answer many support requests and fault reports. I always told people "one form, one problem". Some people took notice and others didn't.

My last employment - before my health retired me in 2007 - was as facilities manager where I learned to always cover my rear, consequently I have always been a bit wordy with documents to minimise misunderstandings. This forum is the first opportunity I have ever had where people actually want to read all that I write (even if it is only to correct me sometimes)

Anyway thanks for your clear and detailed response. I have looked at some of your responses to other queries and you go well beyond the call of duty. I have seen your patient replies to what look like hopeless cases. However we all benefit from you sharing your knowledge this way.

I thank you very much for that - although I am not sure I deserve it. It has always been in my nature to try and help where possible but I only came to this forum as a complete newbe in January this year. I suspect though that my MS Windows background has helped - although in reality I have discovered that if you approach android like other things in life with caution, protection (where poss i.e. backups) 1 part common sense, 1 part confidence and 1 part courage - you can almost always get away with it.

There is clearly a lot of complexity from Google putting together a system that is at one level open source and free for everyone to use and at another level their business interest in making money (monetizing it, as the Americans seem to say) from their work and keeping control of Android. Am I right in thinking that although it is open source, most of the Android operating system code is delivered by Google staff?

Presumably the Gapps you mentioned fall between these areas. I shall look further into this subject.

The Android Open Source Project (AOSP) is led by Google, and is tasked with the maintenance and development of Android. According to the project "The goal of the Android Open Source Project is to create a successful real-world product that improves the mobile experience for end users." AOSP also maintains the Android Compatibility Program, defining an "Android compatible" device "as one that can run any application written by third-party developers using the Android SDK and NDK", to prevent incompatible Android implementations. The compatibility program is also optional and free of charge, with the Compatibility Test Suite also free and open-source.
You can find out all you want to know about android, SDK, ADB and CWM here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2757#p22274

I am interested in the business of the Play store allowing some downloads and rejecting others as "This app is incompatible with ...". Is it known who is making the decision - is it the app developer when he uploads it to Play, or is it Google on some analysis they make?

I have a particular case in mind. I have been trying out the Tumblr blog system on PC and have been toying with it on my Engage too. I have used a couple of third party apps to access Tumblr as I hit the incompatibilty message when trying to download the official app from Play. Tumblr only give a link to Play and my email to their support gave only the typical non-reply you might expect in these circumstances. I am wondering whether the block is down to Tumblr or Google.

I don't know the answer to that one but I think I know a man site that does http://source.android.com/ or even more specifically - HERE : http://source.android.com/compatibility/index.html

Currently I am considering whether I should attempt a side load, as I have discovered the APK on an unrelated site called AndroidDrawer. I am guessing that at worst it will simply not run and at best it will work just fine. I see no reason why installing an "incompatible" app should do any further damage.

This subject area interests me a lot. I source a lot of my Windows material from 3rd party sites and as a "Grumpy old man" I don't like to part with too much of my pension in order to obtain programs. This has occasionally led me into the paths of recklessness where I have needed to fend off trojans, worms, key-loggers, etc. Obviously, it is even more tempting to do this with android because Google Play-store, (as you have found out) sometimes simply won't Play at all!

There is a distinct division of opinion between members on this forum as to whether you should protect your android device with firewalls and antivirus or not. On the one hand downloading apps who's permissions wan't to access services that cost you money doesn't really matter on a tablet that hasn't got any sim mobile service access so it can't hurt can it?
On the other hand, a little research clearly shows that the amount of android malware out there, particularly on 3rd party sites, is growing daily. Personally, whilst I find there is merit in both views, this does nothing to address the risk of identity theft which I personally feel, details of which -Facebook, Twitter, just to mention 2 - are just a click away and how much easier is it to tap the screen to get something you want, whereas an 'unsafe site alert' on your main PC would probably stop you in your tracks. I am very alive to how much easier it is to expose my identity to theft on my android tablet than on my PC. You may agree or disagree with that view.

One can criticise Google for some of their decisions and their control of Android, but overall I am very glad that they have delivered a workable system to compete against Apple and iOS and allow me to buy a tablet I like at a price I like without the Apple style lock-in.

I read that we may have a third choice at some tiime, as a Chinese organisation is developing an Android like system that can be used by their handset manufacturers independently of Google and Apple. It's called Aliyun if I remember right. It's good to see some real competition between the three, remembering the way the PC market has been dominated by Windows.

Hmm, I seem to have wandered off the original topic.

John

Horses for courses or as they used to say: "One man's meat is another man's poison." With Apple, you do at least get a level of support and customer service whereas with the unlicensed (throwaway) tablets you can't get stock firmware or spare parts and the customer support is virtually nill - but of course that's what this forum is for isn't it

Hope you like what I have done with your post.... hope it makes it easier to follow.

Regarding going off topic (the cardinal sin) if we never did that at least once then we wouldn't have such good reads - anyway I have changed the thread title to cover us a bit.

[JCB]

As threatened earlier in this thread, I did a sideload of Tumblr app from AndroidDrawer, as the app showed as Incompatible on Play store. One thing that surprised me was that the file I downloaded on my PC (onto a microSD card in a USB reader) showed up with the file extension .man. I did a Google search and apparently there have been similar cases, so I renamed .man to .apk.

Is this a common thing, for APKs to be called .man?

Anyhow I stuck the SD card back in the Scroll Engage and it installed uneventfully. At first glance, the app is running just fine.

TC, I read the link on compatibilty. Interesting and informative, thanks.

John

[Trashcooky]

man is a new one on me - it is possible it was to fool the host server's diagnostics - sometimes hosts will block you if you try to use them to host copyrighted material. Can't think of any other reason.